Cedar Lake Trail Speed Limit - Back From the Grave
In spite of City promises, a 10 mph speed limit has been signed on the Cedar Lake Trail. This is old news - I got the picture a couple months ago and I'd guess it was added in the City's signing binge around August or September.
I'm not necessarily opposed to speed limits for bicycles but I do have some questions about this particular speed limit:
1. How and why was 10 mph chosen? Why not 8? or 13? Does it have anything to do with the number of fingers on the average human hand?
2. Since this is the only speed limit sign on the Cedar Lake Trail (that I've seen), where does this speed zone begin or end? If the speed limit is valid for the entire length of the trail, how are cyclists supposed to know before they come across this sign?
3. Why is it dangerous for a bicycle to go 11 mph on a facility that's seperated from all traffic except bicycles, but it's safe for a bicycle to go 25 or 30 mph in mixed traffic?
Comments
10 mph is nuts on a
10 mph is nuts on a completely separated facility. That'd be like a freeway with a 30 mph limit. Seems like the tendency of planners/engineers to feel a need to always have a maximum, even when it doesn't really make sense.
I'll contend that speed
I'll contend that speed limits for bikes aren't helpful in the least. Most bikers don't know what 10 mph is like (while biking). Without gauges, bikers only really know "fast, medium, slow, etc". Signs for bikers should stay simple instructions, such as "slow down" - instead of "Speed Limit 8mph" (like they have in St. Paul for bikes).
another example of bicycle / pedestrian paranoia
these kind of rules simply make a layer of intangible bureaucratic regulation ignored by everyone, and I mean 99% of people. if you have a law with 1% complaince, its probably a bad law. (this is true for stop sign laws as well, BTW. the Idaho stop sign law makes a great deal of sense, and is what almost everyone does anyway, regardless of the technicalities.)
there are two approaches to bicycle laws. the first is to try to 'regulate' safety using these kinds of easily ignored rules. the second is to pay attention to actual cyclist behavior, and to try and create 'nudges' or infrastructures that create safe outcomes without turning 99% of the people into criminals. why not simply have a sign that said 'yield to pedestrians'? it would be more effective, more to the point, more understood...
speed limit on Cedar Lake (Kenilworth) trail.
I ride this trail daily. I like to think that sign is there for the maintenance vehicles and the occasional cop along with the lost taxi cab (for real; can't make that up!) that race along the trail. Just today; the chain gang van towing the trailer full of gear shot by me going @ least 40mph. Cool. They must've been late for...? Also; the Lance wannabe's could heed the 10mph especially when there are children and folks out for a recreational ride. Lance ought to use the streets if he/she has to train for the 'tour'...not cool to race on rec. trails.
"these kind of rules simply
"these kind of rules simply make a layer of intangible bureaucratic regulation ignored by everyone, and I mean 99% of people. if you have a law with 1% complaince, its probably a bad law."
I could not agree more.
Seperated lanes and a 10mph bike speed limit?? This is just plain absurd. Let's not be passive-aggressive saying we can't understand a bike speed limit - I can't. It *is* like a divided freeway with a 30mph speed limit. It's like building a bumper cars park, putting in bumper cars, then enacting a rule that you can't bump into the other cars.
First, there shouldn't be a speed limit on a bike transit corridor like this at all - there's already a speed limit enforced by "you can only go so fast on your bike under your own power".
Second, in other areas where the paths aren't seperated, 10mph is still absurd. 15mph is how fast I could bike in high school - and I only bike sometimes, for transportation.
Rediculous.
The 10 mph speed limit is
The 10 mph speed limit is strange, especially since MnDOT (which officially no longer has a "/" in it I'm told) generally prefers a 20 mph design speed.
I like to think it's there for liability purposes, so that if someone does something stupid going too fast the City can blame them for breaking laws rather than being liable for creating an unsafe situation or something. But I don't really know how that would stand up in court...
The Minneapolis Park Board is kind of a strange animal. They tend to do whatever they want in terms of signing/striping, and feel very little need to conform to generally accepted standards (for example, the <a href="http://velotraffic.com/2011/09/green-centerline-stripe/">green centerlines</a>.)